Ben Best (Login Benbest_)
Veteran Member
I believe significant misinformation has been disseminated
about my role and the role of Suspended Animation in the
treatment of the 81st patient of the Cryonics Institute (CI).
http://www.cryonics.org/reports/CI81.html
I want to correct some of this misinformation.
I lost my appetite for chat groups well over a decade
ago when I realized how much time I could waste trying to
answer accusations. And that having answered some accusations
can lend support to the idea that not answering subsequent
accusations is a tacit admission of their truth. Some people
equate the search for truth with the search for dirt and will
only believe what appears to be evidence of deception, low motives
or incompetence. Things have become even more complicated for
me now that I find it so difficult to speak for myself rather
than for an organization -- having so many people trying to
censor me or put words in my mouth. With all these disclaimers,
I do know that sincere people read forums and that an
occasional attempt to correct misconceptions can be of great
value. I want to make an attempt at clarification while
disclaiming that the absence of further postings in reply
to subsequent accusations is an admission of guilt.
My comment-- Bullshit. There should be NO difference between speaking for himself and CI .
The first issue I would like to address is the question
of whether the 81st patient received better care WITH
Suspended Animation (SA) than he would have received
WITHOUT SA. Note that this question is distinct from
the question of whether SA could be better than it is
or whether SA would have deployed more resources if the
patient had been fully funded.
BULLSHIT-- the ostensible difference was no standby-- for the price reduction-- NOT more or less "RESOURCES" if the patient were "fully funded"
It is also distinct from
the question of how much medical training or what medical
credentials SA staff require to deliver basic cryonics
cool-down, CPS and related support.
BULLSHIT-- Operating the perfusion equipment REQUIRES trained personnel. Maxim will with this point soon... watch out.
By the use of an ice bath, CardioPulmonary Support (CPS)
and an ATP the patient was cooled to below 10oC in about half
the time such cooling could have been achieved by a funeral
director using ice bags.
BULLSHIT-- the comparison with ice bags is a FALSE COMPARISON. At minimum, should be compared to ice slurry as described on CI's own site
Moreover, CPS during the cooling period
meant that tissues could remain viable in a way that would
not have been possible without CPS. Administration of
streptokinase, vasopressin and antioxidants in addition
to the usual heparin eliminated clots, increased
circulatory capacity and reduced oxidative damage. Blood
replacement with organ preservation solution in a timely
manner avoided reperfusion injury and reduced the cold
ischemic damage the patient would have suffered during
shipment in ice to CI's Michigan funeral home where
vitrification perfusion was performed.
I have studied and written considerably on the subject of
ischemic damage to cryonics patients as, for example, in:
http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/ischemia.html
http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/IR_Damage.html
For those who would trivialize the benefits of rapid
cooling achieved by the SA team I quote from the
cooling section of the latter article:
************** BEGIN QUOTE **********************************
Cooling of a cryonics patient with ice immediately following
BULLSHIT-- has nothing to do with the contentious issues.
Criticisms of the medical qualifications of the SA team
are beside the point of what they achieved.
BULLSHIT-- what did they achieve?
Having paid
personnel with equipment and a willingness to maintain CPS
(manually, if necessary) during cooling is of enormous
value. Claims that the patient was the subject of
experimental procedures without foreseeable benefit are
similarly without merit. The patient received time-tested
cryonics protocols which had substantial measurable benefit
over what he would have received had SA not been present.
BULLSHIT-- CI can't do manual CPS?
Accusations have been made that the patient did not want
SA treatment, that I consciously opposed the patient's
wishes and that I subjected the patient's son to high-pressure
sales tactics. Included in these accusations is the presumption
that I had virtually no interest in the patient's well-being and
that I was almost entirely motivated by my desire to promote SA.
(Explanations given for my ultimate motives for wanting to
promote SA are more murky.)
BULLSHIT-- It's not "murky"-- This was a cherry picked case and it was handed over to SA for "win win" reasons. What is murky is what SA "wins".
I was aware that the patient had attended the SA conference
in May with his son. I had also been told by CI facilities
manager Andy Zawacki that the patient had not been so impressed
with what he saw at SA. I do not believe that the latter is
the same as saying that the patient would not want SA service
at any price.
BULLSHIT-- What part of "no" does Ben not understand? The "N" or the "O"??? Is that too long a word for him? It depends on the precise meaning of "no", I guess. Check websters for girls' defintion of one of the hundred meanings of "no".
It is false that I would have opposed the
patient's wishes if I believed he would not want their
services at any price.
BULLSHIT-- this entire handover revolves, then, around what Ben Best believes would have been the situation if the situation had been different-- in other words pure speculation-- guesswork-- motivated by a hidden factor that's EASY to hide?--
Knowing that the son had attended the SA conference with
his father I felt that he could appreciate the value of what
SA had to offer. I also believe that no one could better
estimate what the patient might want from SA than his son,
who had spent an entire weekend with his father seeing the
SA conference and touring the SA facilities.
Seeing a possible opportunity which I believed could be
of benefit to both SA and the patient (a win-win situation)
-- and believing that the extra funds were available -- I
spoke to Saul Kent and the son about the possibility of SA
taking the case for $8,000.
BULLSHIT-- the SA charge is $30,000 so you're saying the no-standby allowed $22,000 to be deducted ?
With the moment of deanimation
somewhat predictable upon removal of the ventilator there
would be no need for costly standby. I do not remember any
opposition from the son when I made the proposal to him.
How can anyone claim or know that I subjected the son to a
high-pressure sales pitch when only the son and I were on
the telephone? If the son had been pressured he would be
expected to express doubts and remorse afterwards. On the
contrary, he expressed great satisfaction with the services
SA provided for his father. Moreover, I do not believe the
patient's son would have allowed his father to receive SA
services if he had any indication that his father would have
been opposed. And I believe that the patient's son was in
a far better position to know what his father would have
wanted concerning SA services than anyone else.
BULLSHIT-- Ben previously wrote that only the patient knew why he didn't sign up for SA... What DOES the son say-- that C81 WANTED SA but did NOT sign up becuase it was too much money--- $30K?
The agreement between CI and SA for this case
was an "ad hoc" agreement, so the usual contractual
terms did not apply.
BULLSHIT-- ALL CI members should have that ability to get an ad hoc contract then. Let's sign them all up
I understand that there are people who would love to see
SA destroyed.
BULLSHIT-- attribution of false motive.We just want the truth.
But I also believe that there are critics of
SA who would like to see SA improved. I am not in a position
to evaluate all of the criticisms. I hope that the criticisms
have a constructive result. But I do believe that to claim
that SA cannot offer great benefit at present -- and did not
give great benefit to CI's 81st patient -- is false. It is
true that CI and SA websites have have not been up-to-date.
Previous announcements are historical records which should
not be rewritten, but I have attempted to make an update
with a new announcement at:
http://www.cryonics.org/SA/SA_CI_Announcement.html
and am open to suggestions for further corrections.
BULLSHIT-- he's not open at all-- not even with the CI board who he does not appear to have consulted on this-- and who he may be in trouble with right now-- causing major tension in the CI community-- I would guess-- He appears to have UNILATERALLY turned C81 over to Saul Kent who now cherry picks CI cases-- just like he cherry picked TW at Alcor-- and will likely continue to try to cherry pick. Now he appeasr to me to be running damage control, spin and re-direction of attention-- and then saying he's opting out of further dicussions-- falsly labelling the questions and the speculation as "dirt" that he won't descent to. I therefore hold Ben Best in comptempt of the cryonics community at large. He even admitted that his personal position is different from the CI position-- so right there-- he's guilty as charged.
-- Ben Best, President, Cryonics Institute
Followers
The Frozen Files--
A Classical SuperHumanist cryonicsx blog by "PhilOssifur" [Summer 2007]
Email philossifur@yahoo.com
Latest entries listed at very bottom of page-- scroll down to end.
Fall 2007 continuation at the following blog... under 'cryonics-- SA-- [+]
Email philossifur@yahoo.com
Latest entries listed at very bottom of page-- scroll down to end.
Fall 2007 continuation at the following blog... under 'cryonics-- SA-- [+]
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Frozen Files Summer 2007 Alphabetical Index
- . (1)
- 000-- 08-21-07-- Aerogel and world situation (1)
- 21CM (1)
- 21CM-- finance-- follow the money starting at 21CM-- cryonics (1)
- 21CM-- formulas-- 4 (1)
- 21cm-- New building. (1)
- 21CM-- patents-- numerous patents filed. (1)
- 21CM-- rabbit kidney 2005-- vitrification formula-- Alcor formula (1)
- 21CM-- rabbit kidney transplant 2005-- overlooked (1)
- 21CM-- Saul Kent-- kingpin (1)
- A-- C81-- personnel-- one anonymous made everyone anonymous (1)
- Alcor billing screw-up-- continues. (1)
- Alcor billing-- 02-- Steve Jackson goes public (1)
- Alcor Blog-- Chana deWolf-- interesting blog post-- 08-31-07 (1)
- Alcor blog-- Chana deWolf-- post gone (1)
- Alcor blog-- Chapman points to Newsweek article (1)
- Alcor blog-- Extensive reporting-- board meeting (1)
- Alcor conference-- blogs-- speakers should have blogs (1)
- Alcor conference-- Harris's topic not tight enough (1)
- Alcor Conference-- Oct. conf. features Bridge-- (1)
- Alcor conference-- promo not academic (1)
- Alcor conference-- speakers vs. blogging (1)
- Alcor- homepage (1)
- Alcor- Why have a conference Nov 2007? (1)
- Alcor-- 08-23-08-- renumbered conferences (1)
- Alcor-- billing bungling (1)
- Alcor-- blog-- chapman conference notice (1)
- Alcor-- board meeting June 30 (1)
- Alcor-- Canadian case-- funding problem-- (1)
- Alcor-- conference-- renumbered? (1)
- Alcor-- end of life optin-- not life extension (1)
- Alcor-- heart lung machine vs. Alcor perfusion equip (1)
- Alcor-- last online case report 2004 (1)
- Alcor-- Paid speaker program mistake. (1)
- Alcor-- Pancake disappears into black box (1)
- Alcor-- prepare for conference in Oct. (1)
- Alcor-- preparedness 08-31-07 (1)
- Alcor-- procedures (1)
- Alcor-- readiness personnel in question (1)
- Alcor-- renumbered conferences? (1)
- Alcor-- rescue team personnel (1)
- Alcor-- team members (1)
- Alcor-- threat of cancelled membership or non-rescue (1)
- Alcor-- weather in Scottsale (1)
- Alcorx-- Stumpx 2003-- Rediculous conversation (1)
- artifact storage (1)
- Ashes in space (1)
- atp use (1)
- attacked again 18-- mistake oops (1)
- Attacked again-- 05-- Nature of attack (1)
- Attacked again-- 06-- Classical SuperHumanism is unassailable. (1)
- Attacked again-- 07-- Practicality vs. Principle (1)
- Attacked again-- 08-- No joke (1)
- Attacked again-- 09-02-07-- Close blog to public (1)
- Attacked again-- 09-03-07-- end of frozen files (1)
- Attacked again-- 10-- test (1)
- Attacked again-- 11-- Issue becomes forced censorship (1)
- Attacked again-- 11.-- Thought control-- nanotech- immortality- Larouche (1)
- Attacked again-- 12-- final warning (1)
- Attacked again-- 14-- Psychological battle (1)
- Attacked again-- 14-- YouSendIt-- why did attacker use this? (1)
- Attacked again-- 15-- Attacker most upset with blog alerts (1)
- Attacked again-- 15-- ccryonics (1)
- Attacked again-- 17-- Might be enough to leave world affairs etc out of this (1)
- Attacked again-- 19-- I'm called a martyr for using cryonicsx. (1)
- Attacked again-- 20-- cryos remain out of touch (1)
- Attacked again-- 21-- Under seige (1)
- Attacked again-- 22-- Now the entire ColdFilter forum under threat by Matt (1)
- Attacked again-- closed blog-- good thing (1)
- Attacked again-- martyr (1)
- Attacked again-- renewed vigor on closed forum (1)
- Attacked again-- start over. 09-01-07 (1)
- Attacked again--13 -- one reader? (1)
- Attacked again--16-- Completion of the quarter (1)
- Attention direction-- blogs (1)
- Attention Steering-- Cold Filter and FD (1)
- Attention Steering-- Psychocybernetics (1)
- Audrey Smith-- cryopreservation pioneer didn't preserver herself (1)
- Australia-- Phil Rhoades-- 01-- reason for being in rural area (1)
- Autopsy-- Venturist religious objection (1)
- autopsy-- Venturist- card complete-- online? (1)
- Bacteria (1)
- Banned-- Flogging-- I even got banned for flogging (1)
- Ben Best-- contempt (1)
- Blog Design 07-14-07-- Newest design higlites alpha index. (1)
- blog mechanics-- 08-20-07-- returning visitors (1)
- BLOG MECHANICS-- Alphabetical index-- Ettinger used keywords from the beginning. (1)
- Blog mechanics-- click on month for daily digest. (1)
- Blog mechanics-- connected forum. (1)
- Blog mechanics-- counter (1)
- Blog mechanics-- counter-- 100 hits day 2 (1)
- Blog mechanics-- counter-- tiny counter one count per ip (1)
- Blog mechanics-- counters (1)
- blog mechanics-- counters all crappy (1)
- Blog mechanics-- Countesr-- first day35 (1)
- Blog mechanics-- FeedBlitz (1)
- Blog mechanics-- Google blogsearch lists BonHomme's Quarterly (1)
- Blog mechanics-- latest post viewing (1)
- BLOG MECHANICS-- Network54 to change-- Abandon it. (1)
- blog mechanics-- pdf (1)
- Blog mechanics-- pdf download (1)
- Blog mechanics-- podcast of this blog (1)
- blog mechanics-- returning visitors (1)
- blog mechanics-- returning visitors-- 4.5 (1)
- Blog mechanics-- returning visitors-- Bravenet graphs (1)
- Blog mechanics-- returning visitors-- hostile (1)
- Blog mechanics-- returning visitors-- hostile-- no truth (1)
- Blog mechanics-- threaded forum linked discussion (1)
- Blog mechanics-- work area (1)
- Blog writing-- Indexing-- How to use date stamps to log a story line. (1)
- Blog-- Contribute to this blog. (1)
- Bloggers amenable to cryonics-- Matus1976-- hypothermic medicine 08-31-07 (1)
- Bloggers amenable to cryonics-- Teri (1)
- blogging-- bigwheels who should blog (1)
- Blogging-- philosophy-- discussion is a distraction (1)
- blogology (1)
- blogs 07-14-07-- CI head cooling box. (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists- anonymous (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Aschwin and Chana-- technical cryoncis blog (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Mark Plus (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Mark Plus-- Atheism (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Mark Plus-- Comment on Zionism please. (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Melody Maxim (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Robert Ettinger. (1)
- Blogs by cryonicists-- Steven B. Harris (1)
- Blogs by pro-cryonics people-- Christian cryonics (1)
- Blogs by pro-cryonics people-- Unsane-- fear life (1)
- Blogs that mention cryonics cynically-- in strict literal God context (1)
- blogs that mention cryonics favorabley-- Malanie Swan (1)
- Blogs that mention cryonics favorably-- GoodLifeGifts (1)
- Blogs that mention cryonics favorably-- Joreth (1)
- Blogs that mention cryonics favorably-- quistian zaine (1)
- Blogs that mention cryonics favorably-- V.R. Manoj (1)
- Blogs the mention cryonics favorably-- Melina Chok (1)
- Blogs-- attention direction (1)
- Blogs-- Frozen Files-- Spring 2007 (1)
- blogs-- google blogsearch under 'cryonics' (1)
- blogs-- primary source of sovereign mind thought (1)
- Blood subsitutes-- Biotime-- whatever happened to... (1)
- Blood substitutes-- plastic blood (1)
- Bob nelson-- update please. (1)
- brain damage-- Ben Best article (1)
- brainwave church-- 1.-- Invitation (1)
- brainwave control-- anna wise-- mind mirror (1)
- C81 (1)
- C81-- visualization of the brain-- Harris-- Zewacki (1)
- CADC (1)
- Cancer-- suppressed cure (1)
- cannulae issue-- see SA-- cannulae (1)
- Case reporting (1)
- case studies (1)
- Cases-- 2007 (1)
- Catholic church-- cryonics takeover (1)
- Center of cryonics-- where is it? (1)
- CF-- 01-- Ads (1)
- CF-- Ads (1)
- CF-- George-- oversight (1)
- CF--01-- Latest rounds by Maxim (1)
- chemrails (1)
- Christian cryonics-- blogger (1)
- Christian cryonics-- Jesus would have supported cryonics (1)
- CI-- Ben Best's article for local gropus (1)
- CI-- C81 critique and response (1)
- CI-- case 83 (1)
- CI-- field washout (1)
- CI-- mortician based program destroyed. (1)
- CI-- needs SA (1)
- CI-- playing catch up with SA (1)
- Classical FutureHumanism-- 00. Intro. (2)
- Classical Humanism-- cryonics (1)
- Classical Immortality-- physical AND Classical immortality go hand in hand. (1)
- Classical SuperHumanism-- a new context for cryonics (1)
- Classical Superhumanism-- CPlatt on Superhumanism (1)
- Classical SuperHumanism-- Google search (1)
- classroom-- cryonics education process-- cold (1)
- Cold Filter-- 000-- ENTER (1)
- Cold Filter-- 01-- Forum under legal threat by Matt Sullivan (1)
- Cold Filter-- cryonics discussion forum observations (1)
- Cold Filter-- FD-- Overview of Alcor-SA-NOT Ci (1)
- Cold Filter-- Hinek-- Mark Plus-- deletes link to MP blog-- 01-- what gives (1)
- Cold Filter-- Maxim-- SA site needs updating (1)
- Cold Filter-- messy-- alphablog organize-- Network54 (1)
- Cold Filter-- not a general discussion but rather FD controlled space (1)
- Comedy-- Lewis Black (1)
- computerized perfusion-- Maxim vs. FPatrol-- 7-10-07 (1)
- Context for Cryonics1-- A Universal History of Mankind and Radical Prolongevity (1)
- Context-- 01-- impossible to look at cryonicsx without context (1)
- Context-- Political philosophy for cryonics. (1)
- CPB bypass-- video (1)
- Critical Care Phase-- oxygen (1)
- Critical Care Reearch-- nothing on homepage (1)
- Cryonet Blog Lessons-- 1. Google blogsearch under keyword cryonics by date. (1)
- Cryonet Blog Lessons--2.-- Gina Miller posts her blog link to Cryonet (1)
- Cryonet blog lessons--3.-- Link to my blog (1)
- CryoNet-- Alpha-blog attack link post (1)
- CryoNet-- as blog (1)
- CryoNet-- latest archive page-- Google blogsearch on cryonics (1)
- CryoNet-- obsolete-- vacant (1)
- CryoNet-- PhilOssifur posts from 2006 still useful. (1)
- Cryonicists are not Anti-Zionist. (1)
- Cryonics Industry Moniter 07-14-07-- Alcor Conference Nov. (1)
- Cryonics Institute-- John Bull-- Cryonet (1)
- cryonics messenger (1)
- cryonics worldview (1)
- crystal coffins-- Mao and Brezhnev (1)
- Dave Pizer-- Property sale next to Creekside (1)
- Dave Pizer-- Stupid questions (1)
- death orientiation-- cryonics not death-oriented enough (1)
- death-- peaceful death scenes (1)
- Disappearing cryos-- Bill Voice- Michelle Fry (1)
- drop SA (1)
- Economics-- Larouche-- Will cryonics survive the coming crash? (1)
- Editorial-- 07-23-07 (1)
- END OF FROZEN FILES-- This is the last post. (1)
- End-of-life issues-- cryonics as (1)
- End-of-Life Planning-- 1.-- Truthful perspective of cryonics requires deathist thinking. (1)
- Engineering-- Ancient Engineers- L.Sprague de Camp (1)
- Ettinger-- CF post-- 8-31-07 (1)
- Ettinger-- fraudulent comment on pricing (1)
- example (1)
- EXERCISE-- Powerpulse self-experimen (1)
- Fahy (1)
- FD-- Alcor focus misdirection (1)
- FD-- Alcor SA and Kent - 08-31-07 (1)
- FD-- control agent should be avoided (1)
- FD-- debate ender-- who appointed him/her? (1)
- FD-- gatekeeper (1)
- FD-- git er done-- debate ender (1)
- FD-- look after myself only (1)
- FD-- malignment of blogs (1)
- FD-- nobody reads Frozen Files (1)
- FD-- Save the data-- drop the ideas (1)
- FD-- sharper attack roundup. (1)
- FD-- upset over blogs (1)
- feedblitz-- registered readers still getting this (1)
- Fellow Cryonicist-- harm-- Larouche (1)
- Females-- alien lifeform detected (1)
- FINAL POST-- New idea. (1)
- Finance-- World situation is OMINOUS-- THE END IS NEAR (1)
- Fitness-- abdominal muscles-- situps? thebean? (1)
- Flavinoid-- refers to Phil's Classical Future Humanism. (1)
- Flouridation-- What is LEF/KFC position?-- cryonicists? (1)
- Frozen Files-- Winter 2007 (1)
- fully funded-- definition (1)
- Futureneer 07-14-07-- Lobster Summit (1)
- Gatekeeper-- twisted-- calls my blog twisted and pleads for me to stop (1)
- Google blogsearch under keyword 'cryonics' (1)
- Google blogsearch-- cryonics 8-8-07 (1)
- Google blogserach-- cryonics-- reminder (1)
- Harris etc hard to track. (1)
- Harris-- 01-- C81 revelationst to come (1)
- harris-- 02-- supplied SA cannulae?? (1)
- harris-- 03-- thought SA had a perfusionist-- but after Maxim left?? (1)
- harris-- 04-- laying foundation for his defense (1)
- harris-- 05-- wasn't asked vs. worry (1)
- harris-- 06-- pins cannulae problem on maxim (1)
- harris-- 07-- nobody allowed to open kits ex. kelly (1)
- harris-- 08-- Maxim banded proper cannulae to put in kits (1)
- harris-- 09-- maxim points to cannulae in other cases (1)
- harris-- 10-- tried to trip Maxim up by naming surgeons in a cryo forum (1)
- harris-- 11-- Amazing round in CF (1)
- Harris-- 12-- Accuses Maxim merely of trying to damage SA as ex-employee (1)
- Harris-- 13-- cannulae-- maxim's responsibility despite being gone 5 mos. (1)
- Harris-- 14-- Answering tech questions with fewer insults (1)
- Harris-- 15-- In contempt of reason (1)
- Harris-- alphabetical order (1)
- Harris-- being played by Cplatt (1)
- Harris-- C81-- ATP abuse-- pressure-- damaged brain (1)
- Harris-- C81-- burrhole (1)
- Harris-- C81-- handover (1)
- Harris-- C81-- on services not contracted for (1)
- Harris-- C81-- still trying to figure out what happened. (1)
- Harris-- casts Maxim as childish-- needs alpha blog (1)
- Harris-- CCR homepage-- nothing there. (1)
- Harris-- confidentiality (1)
- Harris-- CryoNet blog (1)
- Harris-- LEBuyersClub-- assays (1)
- Harris-- nepotism (1)
- Harris-- practical cryonics (1)
- Harris-- spin control for Kent. (1)
- Harris-- temp gradients (1)
- Harris-- temp gradients-- 2 (1)
- Harris-- truth (1)
- heart lung machine (1)
- Heatlh-- cell phones might trigger cell division (1)
- hinek 01-- joker lists cryonics blogs but not mine (1)
- hinek 01-- locked threads-- it's okay now? (1)
- hinek 03-- ads-- pays for forum to NOT put ad on (1)
- Hinek-- 04-- why can't we all be nice? (1)
- Hinek-- 05-- locked thread-- something I was attacked for (1)
- Hinek-- 06-- Maxim sets him straight (1)
- Hinek-- 07-- attempted moderation (1)
- How things go wrong (1)
- Human uniqueness-- unique human gene (1)
- hypothermic lung lavage (1)
- Hypothermic Medicine-- 225 hospitals have hypothermic machinery. (1)
- Identity-- Penfield-- Larouche (1)
- Idiot savant-- calculator (1)
- Industry Diary-- 07-08-07-- Summer 2007 opens with SA Inc disgraced. (1)
- joe 01-- C81-- Joe knew C81 (1)
- Jon HInek-- Just for you (1)
- Jonano-- Expert posting of blog re Ben Bests SA review to Google blogsearch (1)
- just (1)
- Kent (1)
- Larouche- microbiology (1)
- Larouche-- Latest issue of EIR is out (1)
- Larouche-- moonwalk hoax-- why is he supporting it? (1)
- Larouche-- slander piece (1)
- Larouche-- suspended animation (1)
- latest post-- how to see (1)
- Life expectancy vs. life extension (1)
- life extension-- bogus (1)
- Life extension-- vs. life expectancy (1)
- lifesign monitors (1)
- Living trusts-- current interest (1)
- London vs. Lyndon (1)
- M+ -- money philosohpy of Tom Leye (1)
- M+-- physical principles-- cryonics might violate... (1)
- Makow-- cause of WWI and II (1)
- Makow-- feminism is a NWO strategum (1)
- Marce Johnson 07-25-07-- no update. (1)
- Marce Johnson-- no autopsy card (1)
- Marce Johnson-- SA price break (1)
- Mark Plus-- Albert Ellis (1)
- Mark Plus-- blog-- transurvivalist (1)
- Mark Plus-- How did you find Dvorsky's peiece on Jones? (1)
- Mark Plus-- idiot savant-- opinion (1)
- Mark Plus-- Peak Oil-- $77 pbarrel (1)
- Master narrative-- change the master-- 01 (1)
- Maxim (1)
- Maxim alpha-attack blog (1)
- Maxim etc. (1)
- Maxim vs. Harris on SA-- Surf's up dude (1)
- Maxim-- 01-- Away for the weekend 09-15-07 (1)
- Maxim-- 02-- Bits and pieces (1)
- maxim-- 04-- post to cryonet on CPlatt (1)
- Maxim-- 05-- Verificaiton-- CPlatt's desire to have Maxim manage (1)
- Maxim-- C81-- Cryonet post (1)
- Maxim-- C81-- how would CI have handled it? (1)
- Maxim-- C81-- perfusion error critical (1)
- Maxim-- CF-- 01-- Bad Advice from SA's consulting MD (1)
- Maxim-- CF-- 02-- Critical perfusion info from SA case report (1)
- Maxim-- cf-- 03-- heparin and straight freeze (1)
- Maxim-- comments section open and valuable. (1)
- Maxim-- Harris-- non-disclosure (1)
- Maxim-- heart lung machine safer than Alcor's perfusion system (1)
- Maxim-- SA-- fees not clear (1)
- Maxim-- SA-- reports-- anomalies (1)
- Maxim-- SA-- reports-- missing (1)
- Maxim-- SA-- reports-- trite details (1)
- Maxim-- saddest part of this whole thing (1)
- Maxim-- silly SA perfusion training videos (1)
- Maxim-- Truth and Bigger Pictures (1)
- Maxim-- Truth in advertising-- CI-- 8-29-07 (1)
- Maximum Life Foundation (1)
- media-- not news (1)
- Media-- Swindle magazine-- Journalist interviews Ettinger and Best (1)
- Meetup-- JChapman (1)
- Melody Maxim 07-14-07-- Her own blog has begun (1)
- Melody Maxim-- blog (1)
- Melody Maxim-- SA Inc attack level increases. (1)
- Merkle (1)
- messenger (4)
- Microbiology-- Larouche references. (1)
- moonhoax-- buzz aldrin (1)
- mortuary refrigerators (1)
- Movies-- Frozen Alive-- on Google video. (1)
- Music-- Khachaturian-- Sabre Dance. (1)
- Music-- Suspended Animation rock band (1)
- music-- takin care of business (1)
- music-- that's that way I like it. (1)
- Nanotech reality-- 001. Drexler vs. Smalley (1)
- Nanotechnology-- current role in cryonics (1)
- Newseek article 07-16-07-- no follow up on UC oxygen study yet (1)
- Newsweek article-- Chapman points to it in Alcor blog (1)
- Newsweek articles-- June 07 now this. (1)
- Newsweek-- Merkle listed both articles here (1)
- Nextropy (1)
- Nuclear war threats-- Not survivable. (1)
- nursing homes-- no lifesign monitors (1)
- Online communications-- CryoNet author archive + blog (1)
- oxygen-- Newsweek article (1)
- People-- (1)
- Perception-- Phillip K Dick (1)
- perfusion video-- Bowman monitor (1)
- perfusion-- CF ads-- perfusion services (1)
- perfusion-- first hour (1)
- perfusion-- live operating room video (1)
- perfusion-- organ preservation solution (1)
- Personal perfusion station. (1)
- Pizer-- marketing (1)
- Pizer-- priorities (1)
- point of order-- subject line length and archive list (1)
- Political philosphical context for cryonics (1)
- Population-- 6.7 billion toward 10 billion by 2050 (1)
- Posthumanism-- Larouche (1)
- Prioriites-- what are they in cryonics at this time? (1)
- Priority 1-- UC study Newsweek citation on oxygen introduction (1)
- protest-cryonics-- saying no to murder (1)
- proximity (1)
- pruning my hedge (1)
- Pscyocybernetics-- attention control (1)
- psychology-- American temperament (1)
- Psychology-- gut feelings (1)
- Quitting time-- Aug 26-- at least end of Sept. (1)
- Quitting time-- changed my mind again. (1)
- Readership-- counter (1)
- Regina Pancake-- disappears into Alcor information blackhole (1)
- religion-- agnositics discuss cryonics. (1)
- SA 09-22-07-- Baldwin (1)
- SA 09-22-07-- Fahy grant + facility reminder from May conf. (1)
- SA 9-22-07-- Catherine Baldwin-- impressive background (1)
- SA Badwin 01-- background (1)
- SA conference 2007-- new facility + multimillion dollar Fahy grant (1)
- SA Inc-- C81 case-- handover not right (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- $8k price makes no sense. (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-16-07-- Andy didn't talk C81 into it. (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-16-07-- CI needs SA (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-17-07-- Did Zawacki tell C81 it would be worth it? (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-17-07-- Maxim points to SA abuse of ATP on C81 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-18-07-- Best fails to answer Maxim on brain blowout (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-21-07-- critical mistake vs. mistakes were made (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-23-07 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- 08-23-07-- Son couldn't wait 15 min. (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Andy didn't talk him into SA (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- ATP used or not? (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Ben Best responds to critiques 8-13-07 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Ben Best-- CI cooling capability (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Best on brain blowout (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Burrhole size (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- case report review by Maxim (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- CI needs SA (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- CI's report on handover (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- comparing what CI would have done (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- CPlatt's report-- Maxim road to hell (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- critical error (1)
- SA iNc-- C81-- critical error-- 01-- venous system blow up like a baloon (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- FD asks did C81 want local (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- handover of C81-- board approval? (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- handover-- 08-25-07-- retraction-- tentative (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- handover-- Ben's decision or consult? (1)
- SA inc-- C81-- Handover-- CI bylaws thin (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- handover-- no objection by members (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- handover-- retraction-- tentative (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Handover-- Would a will have stopped it? (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Harris defends CI handover to SA. (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Harris's overview summary (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- How would CI have handled it-- 05-- Maxim (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- How would CI have handled it-- Maxim vs. normanfell 05-31-07 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- How would CI have handled it? (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- How would CI have handled it?-- Ben Best answer (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- How would CI have handled it?-- Harris (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- illegit (1)
- SA Inc-- c81-- liquid ventilation or hypothermic lung lavage (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Maxim calls on Bull to comment (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Maxim on perfusion mistake 08-20-07 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Maxim's analysis (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- medical surrogate-- was the son a... (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Perfusion mess (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- perfusion-- ATP vs. low temp CPS (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- pull the plug decision may be wrong (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Son uncoop w. Team Leader 15 min-- 08-23-07 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Son was NOT faithful to fathers wishes (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- takin care of business (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Visualization of the brain-- 01 (1)
- SA Inc-- C81-- Zawacki knew C81 (1)
- SA Inc-- Maxim-- Bad advice from SA consulting MD (1)
- SA Inc-- Maxim-- Money waste-- irrational (1)
- SA Inc-- Maxim-- Truth in Advertising (re CI) (1)
- SA Inc. 07-10-07-- FPatrol blows Maxim off. (1)
- SA Inc. 07-12-07-- Last quarter's commentary on SA. (1)
- SA Inc. 07-12-07-- Saul Kent's Failure (1)
- SA Inc. 07-14-07-- Cryonics world waits for SA Inc case report. (1)
- SA Inc. 07-16-07-- Guilty false advertising? (1)
- SA Inc. 07-17-07-- Best's conf. report (1)
- SA Inc. 07-18-07-- Maxim's SA/CPlatt attack raised to new level on her blog (1)
- SA Inc. 07-19-07-- Maxim's choice of media will determine truth-outing of SA (1)
- SA Inc. 07-20-07-- Alcor ought to retain Maxim to run new lab in FL (1)
- SA Inc. 07-20-07-- FD sharpens attack on SA (1)
- SA Inc. 07-21-07-- Maxim minimizes full attack with absence of alpha tags (1)
- SA Inc. 07-21-07-- Maxim vs. SA alpha attack blog (1)
- SA Inc. 07-21-07-- Maximm a victim of FD/CF mind control (1)
- SA Inc. 07-22-07-- SA alpha-blog attack link post on CryoNet (1)
- SA Inc. 07-24-07-- Outstanding debt of SA-- Kent agreed with maxim on HLR (1)
- SA Inc. 07-26-07-- No newspage update for over 3 months. (1)
- SA Inc. 07-28-07-- Maxim posts link to her SA critical review to Cryonet (1)
- SA Inc. 07-28-07-- Speculations on SA case report in CF (1)
- SA Inc. 07-29-07-- Maxim's SA/CPlatt blog linked from CryoNet author page (1)
- SA Inc. 07-31-07-- Maxim looks at bigger picture (1)
- SA Inc. 08-02-07-- Continued silence over problem-- no case report. (1)
- SA Inc. 08-03-07 Case report posted. (1)
- SA Inc. 08-04-07-- SA case report C-81 WTF? (1)
- SA Inc. 08-16-07-- Money spent on SA is money not spent on Alcor (1)
- SA Inc. 08-20-07-- Maxim expands on perfusion mistake (1)
- SA Inc.-- 09-05-07-- Outstanding issues not resolved (1)
- SA Inc.-- 09-13-07-- CF fight between Maxim and Harris is intense. (1)
- SA Inc.-- ATP is central (1)
- SA Inc.-- Conflict of interest-- Kent vs. Alcor (1)
- SA Inc.-- CPlatt refuses to consder heart lung machine. (1)
- SA Inc.-- CPlatt-- Invention (1)
- SA Inc.-- CPlatt-- inventions-- jet-powered ambulance (1)
- SA Inc.-- Google map review (1)
- SA Inc.-- heart lung machine (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim vs. Harris-- a review (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Alcor (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Alphbetical Maxim-tracking blog (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Blog (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Bull situation-- request for comment on C81 (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Chronology of CF posts (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- CI site has outdated info (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Computerized perfusion (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Conflicts in Cryonics (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Connections in cryonics more than generally known. (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Containers (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Empty promises (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- FAILURE to deliver promised services (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Harris not aware of what goes on and what results (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- How it went wrong (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Malpractise (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Money Matters (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Question of the day (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Ramp problem (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Road to hell (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- SA Case Report Review-- 8-13-07 (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- Upstairs (1)
- SA Inc.-- Maxim-- What's needed-- Less toxic solutions (1)
- SA Inc.-- Priority concerns I see-- 7-12-07) (1)
- SA Inc.-- ramps-- custom built-- photos. (1)
- SA Inc.-- Saul Kent appearance not younger. (1)
- SA Inc.--Maxim-- Suspended disbelief (1)
- SA- Harris-- Where the buck stops-- FD (1)
- SA-- 6 month period with no Maxim-- George-- hits the nail on the head (1)
- SA-- Alcor Takeover-- 01-- Give up Saul and Bill. (1)
- SA-- Balwin-- FD points to SA pages being updated (1)
- SA-- BIZARRE open email address list from Baldwin (1)
- SA-- C81-- 50-- Matt cSullivan abstains from comment on Maxim's perfusion error thread. (1)
- SA-- C81-- 51-- Maxim away-- Harris bamboozles crowd (1)
- SA-- C81-- cannulae-- lots there-- disappeared. (1)
- SA-- C81-- Cold Filter-- George's overview (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- 01 (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- 02 (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- 04-- Zewacki (2)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- cannulae-- 01-- Maxim responds to Harris. (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- cannulae-- 02-- Harris insists on pointing to Maxim (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- cannulae-- 03-- checkmate by Maxim (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- cannulae-- 04-- Is Harris an idiot? (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- Harris questions it-- 01 (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- Harris questions it-- 02-- wants to change the report (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error-- Harris questions it-- 03-- FD asks about visual-- 01 (1)
- SA-- C81-- critical error--- 05-- Zewacki-- absence of edema-- burrhole (1)
- SA-- C81-- disount (1)
- SA-- C81-- KEY POINTS [Maxim] (1)
- SA-- cannulae update-- no update post-Maxim-- 01 (1)
- SA-- cannulae update-- no update post-maxim-- 02-- Harris points to time Maxim there (1)
- SA-- cannulae-- 1-- George sees Harris's point as indictment of entire SA history. (1)
- SA-- cannulae-- Harris vs. Maxim-- Harris no response. (1)
- SA-- Catherine Baldwin-- [George] (1)
- SA-- Catherine Baldwin-- background check-- Ischemia company (1)
- SA-- CPlatt lied about CV Maxim (1)
- SA-- CPlatt-- buying off Maxim (1)
- SA-- CPlatt-- NDA-- Maxim-- Johnson-- (1)
- SA-- CPlatt-- trying to fire Matt Sullivan (1)
- SA-- critical error-- cannulae ARE relevent as moniters (1)
- SA-- critical error-- cannulae not relevent (1)
- SA-- critical error-- cannulae-- pressure moniter (1)
- SA-- disappearing things-- {Maxim} (1)
- SA-- expiry dates on drugs [George] (1)
- SA-- fraud-- job titles (1)
- SA-- George-- Harris-- 01-- C81 rich man discount (1)
- SA-- Harris out of the loop (1)
- SA-- Harris vs. Maxim-- 1500 cases-- DISTRACTION (1)
- SA-- Harris-- APOLOGIST FOR SA-- small cryonics organization (1)
- SA-- Harris-- Maxim's cv-- Maxim's response (1)
- SA-- management [Maxim] (1)
- SA-- management-- ultimate vs. day to day-- CPlatt-- (FD) (1)
- SA-- Matt Sullivan-- 02-- rediculous posts on CF in mid debate on C81 (1)
- SA-- Matt Sullivan-- 03-- space cadet ignores issues at hand. (1)
- SA-- Matt Sullivan-- 04-- Vacuuous comments miss the mark (1)
- SA-- Matt Sullivan-- 05-- warnings (1)
- SA-- Matt sullivan-- 1-- significance (1)
- SA-- Maxim Blog-- 01-- Important questions about SA (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 01-- Technical Issues (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 02-- Kelly (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 03-- Important questions about SA (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 04-- Calibre of personnel (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 05-- Harris's mistaken assumption. (1)
- SA-- Maxim on CF-- 07-- Maxim waiting for Harris (1)
- SA-- Maxim on Cryonet-- 06-- Cross posted to Cryonet-- Problems with SA (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- blog-- Google search (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- cannulae-- 01 (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- cannulae-- 02 (1)
- SA-- maxim-- harris-- cannulae-- 03-- george (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- flamewar dousers-- Matt Sullivan (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- flamewar dousers-- Unperson (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- Harris's overview-- 02 (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- Harris's overview-- 01 (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- Harris's overview-- 03-- prisons-- narcissists (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- Hinek-- attempted moderation-- 01 (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- missing NDA (1)
- SA-- Maxim-- Harris-- VanSickle-- dismisses debate as flamewars-- 01 (1)
- SA-- NDA-- missing or stolen-- [desertrat] (1)
- SA-- new manager-- CAtherine Baldwin-- no listing (1)
- SA-- standby for CI members (1)
- SA--CPlatt-- unique equipment in cryonics beneficial (1)
- SA--Maxim-- Harris-- Maxim's motives-- 01 (1)
- SAI-- big picture (1)
- SAI-- CI case report disc'n with Zewecki (1)
- Saul Kent-- 5-12-07 (1)
- Saul Kent-- consolidation wish (1)
- Shutdown-- considering again (1)
- Space-- Shuttle launch (1)
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- Stem cells-- cryonicists support embryo slaughter (1)
- Steve Harris-- Implies I'm mentally ill. (1)
- stocks-- publix (1)
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- Super Aliens-- Jesus was a super alien and more (1)
- Suspended animation-- "real" sa going on involves organ preservation solution (1)
- Suspension limit-- Cryonet-- Manning-- interesting topic (1)
- suspension of disbelief (1)
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- transhuman-- superhuman-- vs.-- 01 (1)
- Transhumanist conference-- Chicago-- Kurzweil-- Considering Kurzweil (1)
- Transhumanist conference-- Chicago. (1)
- Transhumanist conference-- Tanya Jones interviewed by Dvorsky on blog (1)
- Transhumanists-- Are TH'ers nothing more than neotanists? (1)
- ttacked again-- 18-- Accidently posted with cryonicsx-- shut down again (1)
- UAGA-- AZ update-- first since 1968-- review (1)
- Unbelievable idiocy-- relative matters. (1)
- Unfinished Business-- Ben Best's SA Inc conference report. (1)
- Unfinished Business1-- Looking at loose ends. (1)
- Unperson-- American anti-constitutionalist (1)
- Unperson-- attacked FD for burrhole size discussion (1)
- Unperson-- cryonics psyops guy mischaracterizes CF debate (1)
- Ventureville 07-16-07-- When is it proper to declare it dead in the water? (1)
- Venturists-- Marce Johnson no autosy (1)
- Venturists-- NO AUTOPSY card (1)
- Venurists-- No autopsy discussion for Frozen File readers (1)
- viscosity and misinfo (1)
- Vitrification-- Hypothermic vitrification is used in cryobiology and cryonics (1)
- Weekly Cryonics Summary 7-14-07 (1)
- Women-- feminism is a NWO strategy (1)
- World Situation-- Cheney VP of War Against the World of a Billion Muslims must be stopped. (1)
- World--01-- News briefs-- including Larouche (1)
- Worldview 07-14-07-- Irresponsible to fail to offer context. (1)
- Worldview-- 9/11 was a war game (1)
- Worldview-- 9/11-- Cryonicists on the record re: who did it (1)
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6 comments:
Phil,
You keep repeating over and over again that this CI case was "handed over" to SA. That is just incorrect. CI ***DOES NOT*** PROVIDE STANDBY AND STABILIZATION. So CI just did what they always do; receive the patient, do cryoprotection and store in LN2. SA's services were added to CI's normal procedures.
I think we have to say that if there's no standby and stabilization immediately upon legal death, it's substandard cryonics, if can be called cryonics at all.
At what point does freezing a dead body become 'not cryonics"? Just as the definition of death keeps shifting due to technology, so too, the definition of cryonics is going to have to shift as well. I guess I'm used to the Alcor position on this.
In this sense, CI has about 16 members-- who have signed up for SA's "extra services". This notion that SA standby and stabilization is "extra" reminds me of the idea of a car salesman telling you, once the deal is closed, that the Wheels themselves are "extra".
The problem is that the cryonics industry has never made clear what standards have to be met to be called "cryonics". Obviously, if C81 had an opportunity to sign up with SA and chose NOT to-- that that was obviously rediculous. It MUST have been the price then.
What is CI doing "vitification" for when they don't even have ANY standby/stabilize capabilities? THAT would seem to be the weak link in the chain.
I'm surprised that CI can't even standby or stabilization for a member just 200 mi out from their office -- whose deanimation was controlled by advance decision.
If CI can perfuse with cryoprotectant, why can't they do initial blood washout and organ preservation? And have they ever been interested in even trying to look into using an ATP-- for that-- at least for local jobs? It seems to me that they've never expressed even a desire to look into it-- and into getting a van and few people together.
People drive around doing nothing in huge SUV's these days. No CI member owns an SUV?-- No CI member can rent a U-truck with a liftgate and learn to run an ATP?
By 2007 standards, CI should not be allowed to call what they do "cryonics" because it's an INSULT to Alcor who is struggling to do these things. CI members are signed up for "post-mortem freezing" with "peudo-cryonics" treatmetn.
Most people will laugh at that distinction because most people don't care about cryonics to begin with but when you understand cryonics-- and how the standard has to match the current day abilities of what is possible, then we have no choice but to now write off CI as a "pseudo-cryonics" outfit.
CI's members only chance now-- is to get that SA Inc rider-- asap... Unless a CI member is signed up with SA, it's not "real cryonics-- for 2007"... or even "1972, perhaps".
We talk about Nelson in cryonics history quite a bit-- well Ettinger was involved with Nelson at the beginning in the 1960's-- Ettinger was even involved in the Bedford case-- I think it was Ettinger who Bedford first contacted-- and the Ettinger called Nelson at that time.
So from there, to today-- you have virtually no progress in Ettinger's cryonics organizaiton. The entire history of Ettinger's effort has been bogus.
To prove it-- let's expose the fact that Ettinger himself has an SA contract-- with standby. I'll bet you he does. Because he knows he hasn't been doing real cryonics.
The curious thing to me is why Ben Best would join CI-- he would have been better off in Toronto-- with the Meet up group there focused on emergency cryonics rescue-- the weak point in CI's chain.
The least CI could have done over the years is invitie retired members to live in a community where there would be quick treatment more likely on hand. They never even did that.
That's the way I see it. Ben Best was into Arctic burial for a long time-- so it's understandable why he'd be heading up CI now. The thing is that the public confuses what CI does with what Alcor does-- fake cryonics is being compared to real cryonics.
CI's new count for "fully signed up" HAS to include standby/stabilization-- and therefore is 16 now-- down from 200.
You sure have a lot of opinions about an organization you obviously know almost nothing about (CI). Apart from most of your comments about Best's post being merely nitpicky, some of the stuff you state about CI is totally incorrect.
A glaring example is 16 members signed up with SA. Bother sometime, will you, to simply read the monthly updated front page of CI's website? That's www.cryonics.org. Here is what it says this month: "Funded CI Members with Suspended Animation Contracts: 34 "
Probably the most important fact you are missing is that apart from what the other anonymous up there said, "CI ***DOES NOT*** PROVIDE STANDBY AND STABILIZATION", which is true, most CI members do not go without stabilization at a pre-arranged funeral home, using solutions provided by and/or required by CI, before they are transported to Michigan for cryoprotectant perfusion and vitrification. Some members even arrange standbys with local resources such as trained funeral directors. And, of course, 34 of them now and growing, depend on SA, and even for that there is always the requirement for pronouncement of death by whoever legally qualifies to do that, and some funeral director services are often required by law, SA or not.
You have a history, "Phil", of being irrationally opposed to CI. Your analysis of Best's report just shows more of that.
34 CI members with SA contracts-- well that’s good-- I’m glad I was wrong.... but at some point I WAS right-- becuase you have to go through 16 to GET to 34.... I’m just not THAT up to date... So CI's "fully signed up members" in terms of 2007 standards is 34-- now let's look at what you said about the real-world protocol vs. what the CI website says...
"most CI members do not go without stabilization at a pre-arranged funeral home, using solutions provided by and/or required by CI, before they are transported to Michigan for cryoprotectant perfusion and vitrification."
Ok but the FIRST pefusion is the washout, the initial cooling and the organ preservation fluid that's been around at least since 1984. You say the "solutions" are provided/requ'd by CI but don't have the NAME of those solutions on the tip of your tongue. Why not? Do you even know what the "solutions" are? Are they perfused into the patient by the funeral director?
And why isn’t that stated on the website-- where we expect there to be an accurate rendition of reality? Your statement just now is WAY more accurate than the CI website.
I'll just ignore your attricutions of false motives to me. That's standard ad hominem attacks-- par for the course in this businss apparnetly.
The key item I'm zeroing in on is the SA treatment of C81 with the ATP kit-- that is a criticla link in the cryonics chain of events... and even IF a CI member is in the hands of a funeral director-- it's nevertheless true that CI CAN"T EVEN HANDLE a local case-- like C81 in a 200 mi zone-- that that patient is DEAD first-- THEN the mortician comes after the fact-- THEN take the patient to the morturary-- THEN does the washout and solutions-- with organ preservative or not?-- you don't say--
Essentially CI's protocol is so far behind in terms of what today's standards are that it cannot be considered cryonics-- your update to my info notwithstanding. SOMEBODY has to point to this and shout!!
You guys (I'm assuming you're a CI person) have never even RENTED A VAN to drive out even 5 miles-- to a member-- you've never even tried!! As far as local funeral directors-- was there even any pressure PUT on a funeral director to make a SPEEDY trip out to the deceased? Maybe-- there has been and I haven't read the CI reports in that detail-- but can YOU tell me? and refer me to a CI report that shows that a mortician was told to GET OUT THE MEMBER ON THE DOUBLE??
Is the morticians van, in essence, the CI- emergency cryonics van? HAs any mortician been trained on a portable perfusion kit? HAs any mortiican EVEN EXPRESSED A PASSING INTEREST in the "hobby" of a portable perfusion kit? I think not.
You tell me I know nothing of CI. I'll tell what I know. I know enough to ask good questions. And THAT is a good question pal. So don't mock me and MY base of knowledge. Just cough up some answers and show me what YOU know.
Pfffft. (waving you off).
Your idea that CI members are better prepared than what the CI webstie protocol says and-- awhile ago that CI members are better funded than what the actual figures say-- that's all very questionable.... most of CI's cases, as far as I'm reading-- are lousy. They're not members and they're not subjected to the protocol. IT would take some work to filter out the crap from the actual cryonics cases on the CI site.
I'm not attacking CI-- I'm attacking what I consider to be problems. They just happen to be ensconsed in the CI situation. Your attribution of false motives to me is unwarrented, laughable and if I had your IP I'd ban it for that. I really would. That was uncalled for. I do NOT have a history of attacking CI... you're view is DISTORTED beyond belief. Your answer in this blog is INSUFFICIENT.
Nice try there, no cigar. Get lost.
So do you want me to "get lost" or do you want the information on what medications and protocols CI recommends and to some extent provides to its cooperating funeral directors? You can't have both. You're a moron, "Phil".
But I will say one more thing here. If you were living in, say, Missoula Montana, and wanted cryonic stabilization before transport to your provider, whether it be Alcor, CI, whomever, which would you prefer to provide it: (1) A team that flies in from some remote location thousands of miles away and is assembled at the last minute from whoever is available at the time, qualifications dubious, and hopefully they will remember all the stuff they are supposed to bring, OR, (2) A local team (usually a funeral provider you have already groomed to know and be capable of what you want, with the help of your cryo organization) who is there already, on the spot, when you need them to be?
The latter type of arrangements works well for many people who are fixed in some remote spot and unable to relocate near their primary cryo provider. How well it works depends on how much time, effort and money one puts into their local mortician. BTW, this can also happen close to CI's HQ, if any CI member wants it to.
Don't bother replying; I will get lost as you said, and no longer read this thread of comments.
You're supporting the CI funeral mortician program without telling us that THAT program defaulted some time ago!
The CI site says so. FD pointed it out in CF this morning. THAT was a major blow to CI-- it seems to me.
The idea of a local mortician doing the initial work vs. a fly-in team-- doesn't work for 34 CI members who are paying for the (incompetent) SA fly-in team. Why not? Because maybe they know that that mortician based program has been destroyed and that an incompetently run SA is BETTER than a broken mortiican program.
The fact that you don't mention the loss of the mortician's power in a CI case bothers me a lot. That was a big deal. You're papering over it. I've never looked real hard at local morticians-- I've scanned funeral publications and have spoken to local funeral directors about cryonics-- they're a LONG way from Kansas, or Missouri-- in terms of cryonics, in general. A long way. You wrote
"How well it works depends on how much time, effort and money one puts into their local mortician. BTW, this can also happen close to CI's HQ, if any CI member wants it to. "
IF ANY CI MEMBER WANTS IT TO? Are you fucking crazy? You're not even half desirous of MAKING it work NEAR the CI lab? What the hell does that mean-- IF ANY CI MEMBERS WANTS IT TO... Right there-- you're guilty as charged for offering Pseudo cryonics. My latest blog post is titled "CI NEEDS SA".... you say you won't be back here to read this but you will be and you'll read my latest blog post to....
The ATTITUDE of someone like you who says "this can also happen close to CI's HQ, if any CI member wants it to" is astonishingly corrupt and daft in my opinion. If any Ci member wants it to-- It's not up to a MEMBER to provide his or her own cryonics service you moron. YOU are the moron-- and you get away with something like this---
Well it's all over for you and the rest of CI too anyway.... because REALITY is that the INCOMPENTLY run SA is BETTER at doing what you say a CI member can provide for themselves-- get a local funeral director...
and 34 CI members AGREE WITH ME-- so YOUR argument must be a problem to THEM. Don't talk to ME here about it-- go ask THEM what THEIR problem was with CI.
Whoever you are-- you're missing something-- maybe its conscience. When you say you provide a cryonics service, you have to do something active toward that. CI had the idea of using funeral directors for years-- but this is turning out to be substandard and should be examined more closely by the real cryonicists-- in detail-- because I think there are severe problems. You didn't mention the most severe problem. It's almost as though your'e a control agent-- in here-- a gatekeeper for CI--
The suspension of disbelief is all that's needed for some type of situation to exist-- and potential fun'l dir. participation helps readers and the public-- and ci members-- suspend their disbelief. However, as far as GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE CRYONICS STANDARDS go-- it seems to me that fun'l dir. prgram has not been cutting it.
This isn't to say that it can't cut it in the future-- but right now, 34 CI members have opted OUT of the CI fun'l dir program!!!-- and paid for it-- preferring the SA fly-in service.
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